RE: Requirements specification

[julian_satran@il.ibm.com]

Prasanjit,



I will not answer the first point - it is a truism. You will have to have a
      decent load balnacing scheme. And the draft does not allude at linear
      scaling.



As for the second there are many other applications that can benefit from
      several connections for both speed and availability.  FC failed to
      realize that error recovery

is NOT done at SCSI layer in most cases (parallel SCSI connections don't
      fail) and had

to introduce it afterwards.

Many other benefits of several connections are the potential to add
      connections as you grow

without having to abandon old connections, separate bandwidth management
      from storage

management etc.

Backup/mirroring are not the only application that will gain from using
      several connections.



Taking the view that the any complexity is bad  is shortsighted in this
      context.



Julo



Please respond to psarkar@almaden.ibm.com

To:   ips@ece.cmu.edu
cc:    (bcc: Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM)
Subject:  RE: Requirements specification







Two points:

1.  The iSCSI presenters seem to imply that having 'n' connections through
the IP
fabric will automatically give you 'n' (or close to 'n') times the
bandwidth if you
round-robin your packets across the connections. This is probably true only
in the
very ideal case and in the real world, the situation is far less rosy to
make such
an assertion so confidently.

2. Fault-tolerance currently is (and should be) layered above the SCSI
transport layer. There are
enough solutions from several vendors in the market which deal with this,
so there is no use in
reinventing the wheel.

Based on the "Keep It Simple and Stupid" and "Optimize for the Common Case"
principles,
I would appeal to the iSCSI "design team" to forgo multiple connections per
session and use specialized
solutions for remote mirroring and remote tape backup (the apps that
require multiple
connections).

Sincerely,
Prasenjit

   Prasenjit Sarkar
   Research Staff Member
   IBM Almaden Research
   San Jose


"Douglas Otis" <dotis@sanlight.net>@ece.cmu.edu on 08/04/2000 09:20:40 AM

Sent by:  owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu


To:   Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, <ips@ece.cmu.edu>
cc:
Subject:  RE: Requirements specification



Julo,

You comments are based on several assumptions reflecting your present
architecture.  Your implementation is done at the controller rather than a
device.  You also assume authentication is done at the controller.  Each
LUN
could belong to a different authority and be an independent (virtual)
device
managed through LDAP.  If you bring the interface to the device, you can
obtain the required scaling that is otherwise difficult at the controller
as
with your architecture.  By combining everything into a single connection,
you do not improve reliability, scalability, availability or fault
tolerance.

Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu [mailto:owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu]On Behalf Of
julian_satran@il.ibm.com
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 7:37 PM
To: ips@ece.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Requirements specification




David,

The one additional requirement is availability/fault-tolerance.

Your arguments about performance are valid. However I doubt that there will
be enough incentives - beyond price - to develop things for high end
controllers and
servers.

Enabling multiple connections brings those applications the performance
required
without any serious implications to the rest of the "family" (as I outlined
in Pittsburgh
controllers and servers that don't need multiple connections/session don't
have to implement them).

Storage traffic requirements will always exceed those of many other
applications.

As for the "one-connection-per-LU" we covered this solution in long
discussions
and even several full fledged implementation - as it is compelingly simple.
However the resource consumption is unjustifiably high and the security
problems are
even worse (the LUs "viewed" by an initiator depend on who he says he is)
than
in the current draft.

Regards,
Julo



David Robinson <David.Robinson@EBay.Sun.COM> on 04/08/2000 02:43:11

Please respond to David Robinson <David.Robinson@EBay.Sun.COM>

To:   ips@ece.cmu.edu
cc:    (bcc: Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM)
Subject:  Requirements specification




To further elaborate on my comments in Pittsburgh on multiple
connections per link and connections per LUN vs per target.

The current requirements specify that the protocol must support
multiple connections per session.  So far the only justification
for this that I have clearly heard is performance, current and future
systems will demand bandwidth that will require aggregation. Is there
any other reason for multiple connections?

My challenge to this requirement is that it is fundementally a link
and transport layer issue that is being exposed to the session layer
due to a perception that current link/transport implementations are not
adequate to meet perceived demand.  The key question here is if this
is a "physics" issue that can't be solved with better implementations
or just bad implementations? I am leaning towards the latter. I expect
that if this protocol is a success, a number of highly tuned adapters
using tricks such as hardware assist will be developed.  Those doing
the development will have direct control over the quality of the
implementation.  Furthermore, the performance critical environments
are likely to be local in nature so preassure to create necessary
switches and routers will also exist.

The advantages of limiting a single connection per session should be
a simplification in the connection management and error handling.  From
the earliest drafts we have already seen restrictions of individual
command/data/status sequences to a single connection to better handle
ordering issues. I forsee further restrictions possibly being
required to cover handling of lost connections when sequences are
received out of across multiple connections. Similarily Steve's
comments on security management of multiple connections is of concern.

The second area that I brought up was the requirement of one session
per initiator target pair instead of one per LUN (i.e. SEP). I am willing
to accept the design constraint that a single target must address
10,000 LUNs which can be done with a connection per LUN. However,
statements of scaling much higher into the areas where 64K port
limitations appear I think is not reasonable.  Given the bandwidth
available on today's and near future drives that will easily
exceed 100MBps I can't imagine designing and deploying storage systems
with over 10,000 LUNs but only one network adapter.  Even with 10+ Gbps
networks this will be a horrible throughput bottleneck that will
get worse as storage adapters appear to be gaining bandwidth faster than
networks. Therefore requiring greater than 10,000 doesn't seem necessary.

>From the performance perspective, a connection per LUN also makes sense.
SCSI command flows are already being constrained to a single connection
in the current proposal for ordering reasons, so the number of
concurrent outstanding requests per LUN is a manageable number. The
concurrency desired by multiple connections per session in the
existing draft will naturally occur with a connection per LUN.  As
each TCP connection is a unique flow existing link layer hardware
that tries to preserve ordering based on a "flow" (likely IP/port pairs)
will give the desired performance properties. Both my objections and
the requirements for multiple connections I question above become moot.

>From a connection management, command ordering, and error recover
perspective things should also get simplier.  Ordering is obviously
maintained and the sender can now recover from connection errors
based on a smaller context and possibly use TCP layer information
to determine what responses were received (ACK windows?).

To summarize I would like to see the requirements changed to reflect
a maximum of 64K LUNs per IP node, require only one transport layer
connection per session, and define a session to be an initiator/LUN
pair.

     -David