|
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] Re: iSCSI: comments on draftJim, -I would gladly drop MAP and UNMAP if T10 is there when we get out. Explaining them is harder than implementing them. But t10 has its own (other) priorities. And I did not see any proposal on their site on variable length strings in DNS style. -I understand now you point about AccessID and will change may wording showing where what can be used as an ID. We where all under the impression that accessIDs are "unique" enough in the management domain. Regards, Julo "Jim Hafner/Almaden/IBM" <hafner@almaden.ibm.com> on 13/11/2000 18:41:12 Please respond to "Jim Hafner/Almaden/IBM" <hafner@almaden.ibm.com> To: ips@ece.cmu.edu cc: Subject: Re: iSCSI: comments on draft Julo, My comments in-line and the rest clipped. Jim Hafner julian_satran@il.ibm.com@ece.cmu.edu on 11-12-2000 10:38:19 PM Sent by: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu To: ips@ece.cmu.edu cc: Subject: Re: iSCSI: comments on draft Jim, Thanks for your careful reading. On most of the editorial changes I will not comment here - I will correct as much as I can up to the end of next week. Some non-editorial comments: timers - I am aware that they are not a proper protocol issue as they don't appear on the wire. They are somewhat similar to TCP timers. The intent was to help gateways to FCP do some stateless recovery. I think we should consider them carefully and decide how many of them we want, if the values have to be agreed by initiator and target (I had a private mail suggesting that) or that, in extremis, we can live without them at all (as Matt suggested). If we include them we have to make their implementation mandatory - if gateway recovery can't assume they are implemented then they are worthless. At connection termination the finish was meant to convey "wait until they finish" - I did not mean abort. I will try a formulation that clearly expresses this intent. <JIM> With respect to this an other related explicit or implicit logouts, a table analagous to Table 4 of FCP2 (r04b) "Clearing effects of link related functions" would be very useful. </JIM> On Bidi as I said in a previous note - I am still considering how to fit it in On the AE for abort - it was optional and I heard a strong voice for making it mandatory (of the sort we call in this group consensus) so I did. I personally consider that a check condition and ACA are required anyhow and AE will give you the "management trigger" for initiators otherwise idle. <JIM> I personally think that mandatory AE is not a good idea particularly under the conditions mentioned here (commands aborted by other initiators). Besides the problem with interfering with the new SCSI Status, I suspect that no OS SCSI layers have any idea what to do with it (though I suppose the iSCSI layer could deal with). </JIM> Loging Resets - the place IP devices today log is in MIB that can be retrieved through SNMP. I will try to clarify this - but I will not make any specific reference to a MIB field as this group has not yet work on the proposed MIB LUN or Reserved in data out. The LUN is required for solicited data as the target task tag is not required to be unique target-wide. I will attempt to spell it out. The 8 byte descriptors apply to the unmap function I will try to spell it out. The purpose of map and unmap is to enable target addressing in all IP formats in binary as well as DNS style formats. When T10 will have it we can make the commands obsolete. <JIM> And I'm suggesting that this should be removed now to avoid confusion later. It's actually quite difficult to make things obsolete. I'm probably going to personally take up the banner of getting this function into SCSI and hope for a resolution either in Jan. or in Mar. It's not a contentious issue, it has lots of support in T10, the only thing slowing it down are (a) Ed Gardner's higher priority for SRP (aka SVP) and (b) getting the details right. </JIM> Maps implementation is a entirely up to the target. However values mapped are assumed to be persistent until unmapped. In the text I a working on I state that no third party address can be used if it was not mapped and appropriate error will be returned if this rule is violated or the target has lost the maps due to a power down or reset. <JIM> This disagrees with your statement above that they are persistent until unmapped. In SCSI, "persistent" means survives power-cycles." You don't specify the "appropriate error" in case an SRA is not known to the target (i.e., is currently not mapped). </JIM> As for proxy tokens - how are they covered in third party commands? <JIM> I've explained that proxy tokens are references to logical units, not target devices. I've also tried to explain that all this is handled by approved changes to EXTENDED COPY as described in t10/99-245r9 and slated for insertion in SPC-3. </JIM> I will clean-up a bit the wording and will add a statement about table reset. However the mechanisms used by the target to implement the mapping and to keep it are implementation specific. The clarification we have to add is that SRAs are guaranteed walid only on a given session (you are not supposed to hand them from initiator to initiator) bu the target is not required to check the SRA ownership validity <JIM> How can they be valid only in a given session but the target not be required to check SRA ownership? What happens if to initiators just manage to request mappings for the same SRA? This is either an error (i.e., when SRAs are global over all initiators) or requires the target to check SRA ownership (which you don't claim is required). As I mentioned, I never could figure out where the SRA was in the parameter data; additionally, I don't see how that was going to be used in EXTENDED COPY. This needs to be highly integrated with EXTENDED COPY so that it makes some sense. What flags in EXTENDED COPY target descriptors suggest looking in the map table to resolve the target identifier? I know you have words to the effect that coordination with T10 is necessary here, but I'm suggesting it's simpler and easier just to let T10 take it all. </JIM> The IP in IPsec might lead you to think that it provides only link level security but IPsec provides (depending on the policy) end-to-end security <JIM> This is NOT what I understood from the security experts I got my information from. I did NOT derive my comment from the "IP" in IPsec. </JIM> For errors in format we will introduce a specific sense - iSCSI format error I value your insight in SCSI working and you helping us out on this - and it was from this that the team realized during the drafting meeting in Haifa that if an OS+CPU has already a signature, the AccessID, we could as well use it and not invent a new one. I don't see exactly what layering principles are violated here - an ID is an ID and it does not make sense to have 10 of them. The principals involved are the same. I can hardly understand the rest of your comment. Isn't the AccessID identifying the initiator to the target? Why should we maintain different IDs for the same principals? (layering is an abstraction techniquue that does hardly apply here ) <JIM> Here are a few more comments: 1) the AccessID is not necessarily unique between hosts, much less between initiators. It is quite possible that the same AccessID is used among many different hosts of a cluster to simplify the LUN Mapping policy. It may be that this doesn't matter for the security context you envision but it may also be *critical* that there be a different security context for each host in a cluster to enable fencing. 2) AccessIDs are NOT globally unique, they are not assigned by any naming authority in the way that InitiatorUI's ought to be. They are scoped only within the domain where target LUN maps need to be managed, that is, only in the context of a single Partition Access Management (PAM) space. 3) There is nothing to prohibit a "PAM" from using globally unique InitiatorUIs for AccessIDs (the PAM owns that namespace and can do what it wants), but I'm not sure the converse holds. 4) "An ID is an ID" only within the context of where it makes sense. A MAC is an ID but I can have 10 of them in a host and it still makes sense. 5) As I said, the target will need to make login accept/reject decisions based on things besides AccessID (proxy token, PAM Management Identifier Key, etc), so binding AccessID to login is not necessarily the right thing to do. 6) Not every host is REQUIRED to have an AccessID! </JIM> Thanks again, Julo
Home Last updated: Tue Sep 04 01:06:26 2001 6315 messages in chronological order |