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    Draft San Diego minutes



    Here's the initial draft of the San Diego minutes.
    Comments need to be made in the next few days, as
    the final version for the proceedings will probably
    be sent in on Friday.
    
    Thanks,
    --David
    ---------- IPS Meeting Minutes, Monday December 11, 2000
    
    EMC will be sending out an IPR notice regarding a patent related to iSCSI
    and FCIP.  David  will be sending the information to the IPS mailing list
    this week.
    
    Interim meeting being scheduled for week of January 15, to coincide with T10
    in
    Orlando - Grosvenor resort.
    
    -- Framework document - Mark Carlson.
    	Describes environments for IP Storage.  Includes terms, background
    on
    		various protocols.  This is a living document.
    	Currently more of a survey.
    	This document will coordinate with Naming and Discovery.
    	Looking for more co-authors, please contact Mark if you are
    interested.
    
    -- Framing discussion -- Randy Haagens and Allyn Romanow
    - Allyn and Randy were asked to compose this presentation by the ADs.
    	Purpose was to try to clarify the problem and present a range of
    solutions.
    - Framing is a common challenge with for both iSCSI, FCIP as well as non IPS
    	documents.  While framing is not explicitly required, a solution for
    a
    	more effective iSCSI specification is highly desirable.  The focus
    of
    	the presentation was understanding the requirements of framing (i.e.
    the
    	problem). Reaching consensus on a solution was not one the goals of
    the
    	presentation. Allyn started the presentation by pointing out that
    this
    	topic will also be discussed on Monday night in the TSVWG.
    - The problem: TCP reassembly can be costly, and in some instances not
    feasible.
    	Also, there is limited host memory and host bus bandwidth, so we
    want to avoid
    	manipulating the data more than once.  Best would be one use of the
    bus and
    	memory - zero copy.  Note:  This is not the same as TCP zero copy.
    In TCP,
    	typically wait for all the data to arrive, then copy data to host. 
    - In outbound direction, data can be transferred directly from memory to the
    protocol
    	controller and out onto the wire.  In the inbound direction, when
    received out
    	of order, requires data to be put in reassembly buffer until all
    data is received.
    - One solution: Direct Memory Placement (Payload steering; data steering;
    RDMA) --
    	In order to conserve host memory bandwidth, CPU cycles and reduce
    on-board
    	memory requirements, it is desirable to deliver iSCSI data directly
    to host
    	buffers, avoiding the overhead of TCP reassembly buffers.  The TCP
    reassembly
    	buffer can be 250MB for a 10Gbps link with 200ms round-trip time.
    At 1Gbps,
    	reassembly is possible but very costly.  But when get to 10Gbps
    speeds or above,
    	reassembly is no longer feasible.  So, the goal is to get rid of a
    separate
    	TCP reassembly buffer.  Can decode ULP (iSCSI) headers and place
    payload
    	directly in host memory without intermediate buffers.  This would
    not be a
    	conventional NIC card; instead it would be very iSCSI aware, but it
    would not
    	necessarily process the iSCSI headers, but just use them to
    determine where
    	to place the data.  As in TCP, the iSCSI stream is presented to the
    iSCSI
    	protocol processor in-order.
    - In this solution, must address loss of ULP sync - when a segment
    containing a
    	ULP header is dropped or delayed, ULP sync is lost.  Direct data
    placement cannot
    	continue; data must be diverted to a reassembly buffer.  Goal is to
    recover ULP
    	sync at the next ULP header.  There are both TCP aware and TCP
    unaware solutions
    	to recovering ULP sync.
    - TCP unaware approaches:
    	a) SCTP - issues include not widely deployed
    	b) Special Characters - requires byte by bytes processing
    	c) Fixed length ULP messages - Inefficient for short ULP messages
    	d) Periodic Marker - Best solution for this class of approaches
    		Sublayer of a framing protocol.  Managable; relatively easy
    to
    		implement in hardware Marker 4 byte field number of ULP
    bytes
    		remaining in current PDU.  Marker inserted and removed by
    		framing protocol; e.g. iSCSI.  After loss of sync, locate
    next mearker;
    		use to locate the next ULP PDU.  Markers are transmitted
    twice in a row;
    		ensures markers cannot be split by stream
    fragmentation/segmentation.
    - TCP aware Approaches
    	a) URGent pointer - disallowed
    	b) PSH bit - disallowed
    - Another TCP aware approach can be considered by the TSV working group.
    	Allyn Romanow presented  what the TSV working group works on. The
    working
    	group works on small items in the transport area that do not need a
    full
    	working group as well as TCP/UDP transport issues.
    - Allyn Romanow presented a technique for demarcating message boundaries
    using TCP
    	option.  This consists of using one of the reserved bits in the TCP
    header
    	to extend TCP to support this type of framing. Then can add up to 40
    bytes
    	before the TCP payload.  Problem is that these reserved bits are a
    scarce
    	resource; need to evaluate the need for the change.  Also any time a
    change
    	to TCP is proposed, there is tension, e.g. tension between the need
    to update
    	TCP and stability of TCP.
    - Procedure for standardizing a TCP option consists of 
    	a) The IESG has to approve new work items for the TSV wg.
    	b) Ask the Transport Services (TSV) working group to adopt this as a
    WG item
    	c) Pros-and cons will be discussed on the TSV wg mailing list. If it
    supported,
    		hopefully the spec will be wrapped at the next IETF (roughly
    3 month time
    		frame). If no support, it's dead. The advantage of the TSV
    wg is that
    	transport experts will be able to contribute feedback.
    	d) If supported, will be adopted at next IETF meeting.
    
    Advantage is that people who are experts in transport will be able to
    contribute, and
    that this will not be an  iSCSI specific solution.  IPS should follow this
    process and
    contribute.  Make sure that the solution (since not iSCSI specific) meets
    the needs
    of this group.
    
    This is a very common problem, that is worthy of consideration at the
    transport layer.
    Addresses areas beyond IPS
    
    Allison pointed out that TCP option is not the only approach. TCP header
    bits could
    potentially be used for framing.
    
    The flag approach may send many packets that are less than MSS. This is
    potentially a
    risky change to TCP.
    
    - Message Boundary Option
    	Two approaches.  Not drafts, very introductory.
    Flag approach --  Costa has written up; will post as draft.
    	The flag approach may send many packets that are less than MSS.
    This is
    	potentially a risky change to TCP.  ULP header is aligned with first
    byte of
    	TCP payload.
    Offset Approach -- 4 bytes.  2 byte offset indicates offset into TCP payload
    of
    	first ULP header in the segment.  Write-up forthcoming.
    
    Discussion - Lead by Steve Bellovin
    	Steve Requested the group concentrate on Requirements
    
    Somesh Gupta (HP) proposed another option -- periodic alignment instead of
    periodic
    marker.  There could be a requirement in iSCSI that an upper-layer header
    appear
    every n kbytes in the TCP stream.  Padding could be used to make sure this
    happens.
    Requires API change to TCP/IP stack.
    		
    Ed Cox indicated that this issue has originated multiple times in past.  It
    needs to be a
    general case, not IPS specific.  Randy/Allyn argues that this is the general
    case, in
    that ULP usually have own PDU size info.
    
    Somebody thought that you would need to encode multiple message boundaries
    in any TCP
    options or  otherwise use just one upper layer PDU per TCP segment. This
    would either
    imply small packets or lots of overhead. The reply was that we don't need to
    identify
    every boundary. We can use the length fields in the ULP frames to find the
    next ULP
    header in the packet.
    
    Steph Bailey (Genroco) asked how do you handle losing the first part of the
    packet;
    don't you get into the  same situation trying to avoid?  Pointed out that
    the
    message boundary proposals don't address the issue of the message being very
    long.
    Can't have unbounded ULP, since if we do, and lose the ULP header, have to
    be prepared to buffer an unlimited amount of data in anonymous buffers .
    With max ULP,
    must buffer up to max length of ULP, and this must be a reasonable size.
    	
    Julian Satran said that the mechanism should be generic enough that other
    ULPs can
    use it easily.  Venkat seconded this suggestion, saying that we should also
    treat
    RDMA, VI, etc. in the proposal. Want to have something that would have wider
    application, so to reduce HW dev costs.
    
    Someone from Sun asked when when is the TCP option examined - only when
    there is
    a loss on the receive side, in order to recover.
    
    Question asked how does this relate to RDMA?  Allyn response -- RDMA
    different but
    related.  RDMA proposal either implicitly or explicitly addresses framing.
    May make
    sense to do a generalized RDMA protocol that would make use of this framing
    mechanism.
    
    There was consensus at the end of the discussion - that framing is best done
    at
    the transport layer and  should be done generically.
    
    Modifying TCP vs not :  Luciano Dalle Ore pointed out that deployment of a
    general
    solution, will take much longer to get a solution.  Will not be mandatory.
    May run
    into interoperability problems.  Options are truly options some will be able
    to support;
    others will not.  If inband, can spec it now, possibly require it.
    
    Question asked based on past experience w/options in TCP, how long will this
    take to
    propagate? Allyn responded once defined, based on previous experience, how
    long to get
    procedure defined - a couple of months (by March, 2001); work over mailing
    list.
    Will not hold up iSCSI development effort.  Deployment 1-2 years.  
    
    Allison pointed out that there is motivation to get this done/deployed, so
    deployment
    could occur much  quicker.   When SACK done, was no motivation to get
    adopted.  
    
    Question asked if this framing would be mandatory.  David indicated it would
    probably
    not be.
    
    Asked about necessity of attending tonight's meeting.  Allyn responded that
    the proposal
    will be discussed tonight, but much more discussion on reflector.
    Recommended IPS
    participants sign up for TSV reflector.
    
    Somebody asked: What if we're unlucky and lose multiple iSCSI headers in a
    TCP window?
    Well, you have to buffer proportional to the number of headers that you
    lose. Also, the
    sending rate decreases quite a bit.
    
    There was some discussion of whether this enhanced framing would force TCP
    to deliver
    out-of-order. The answer is no: this architecture does enhanced data
    placement.
    TCP semantics need to be observed by any implementation.  This is a
    difference between
    data placement and data delivery.  Data delivery is still done in-order,
    according
    to the rules of TCP.  The ULP is not aware that out of order data has
    arrived.  Correct
    implementations will not deliver data out of order.  Note:  The memory the
    NIC is placing
    the data in is owned by the NIC.
    
    Mark Bakke said that this would be a good time to treat data integrity as
    well as
    framing. The protocols that want data integrity are CIFS and NFS; these are
    the same
    that want greater reliability from a CRC.  Recommended having a SCSI data
    level CRC;
    customers will be looking for this from a file level as well.  May be
    opportunity
    to put in a HW implemented CRC.  David Black suggested that Mark Bakke send
    out a
    draft on this matter.
    
    There was some confusion as to why the TCP header is not sufficient.  It was
    pointed out
    that multiple simultaneous SCSI transaction are placed on a single TCP
    connection so
    headers and data are mixed on a single TCP connection and sequence numbers
    do not
    a-priori indicate what is data and what is header.
    
    Buffer offset question - the iSCSI protocol packet classifier (or filter) is
    placing the
    data, not TCP.
    
    Steve Bellovin asked for a hum of the room on whether to solve the "framing
    problem" in
    an iSCSI-specific  way or whether to pursue a mechanism to add to TCP. The
    hum in the
    room was to do it in TCP.
    
    
    ISCSI document review - presented by Julian Satran.
    
    - Rough consensus has been reached on the session model - Symetric with
    optional
    	multiple connections.
    - Login Session context - good understanding.
    - Login Security context - more work needed.
    - Commands, messages, tasks, and tags almost complete.  Items open - coding,
    some layout.
    - Response numbering scheme is well understood; complete.
    - The data numbering scheme has received no consensus.  It may be removed.
    Julian's
    	personal opinion is that it's optional and low cost with advantages.
    - For recovery, command restart and status well understood.  No consensus on
    	data recovery.  Digest not well understood; needs to be readdressed.
    - Text commands - negotiation mechanisms done.
    - Mapping moved to T10 (aliasing).  Dropped from iSCSI.
    - RDMA/Sync, Security/Authentication - all are still open issues.
    - Authentication - login phase must provide authentication. This was the
    consensus
    	at the last meeting.  Every iSCSI PDU must provide data integrity
    and
    	authentication.
    - A mechanism should enable optional end2end data protection/authentication.
    Would like
    	to use TCP  recovery in presence of error.  Digests can be activated
    at a higher
    	level.  Need a mechanism that can be activated on demand, ideally at
    login.
    - The current digest scheme needs to be changed.  Julian suggested using
    IPSec for data
    	integrity, since all the above mechanisms are provided by IPSec, it
    is a best fit
    	for what is needed and very cheap if use only what is needed.  Can
    insert own
    	policies, including policies that will verify integrity verses
    provide security
    	but use same mechanisms.  Policies will be addressed in next two
    weeks.
    - David:  IPSec does negotiation securely.  What is currently in the draft
    is most
    	likely vulnerable to man-in-the-middle attack.
    - Steve Bellovin indicated that the IPSec WG would be extremely opposed to
    any insecure
    	non-cryptographic algorithm being defined for IPSec.  Silicon must
    support SHA-1
    	or MD5 in order to do key negotiation.  There are active
    discussions/proposals
    	on how to do high speed encryption/negotiation.  Early in process;
    drafts not
    	yet standards, but worth looking at this.
    - Mark Bakke really wants to maintain the separate iSCSI header/iSCSI
    payload digests.
    	This separation is lost by moving to IPSec.  Gained data integrity
    is only as
    	good as the group is willing to pay.  Good integration with
    encryption. 
    - Can use IPSec in transport mode, which will provide end2end protection.
    Integrity is
    	required end2end, but security may not be.  Security may need to be
    removed at the
    	firewall/gateway, but need to still be able to verify integrity at
    the endpoints.
    	Can have multiple layers of IPSec if needed.  Comment from audience
    - not
    	recommended.
    - David Peterson of Cisco asked whether ACA will be mandated by the draft.
    The
    	consensus, after the discussion, is that iSCSI must support ACA but
    that a
    	device need not support ACA (Ralph Weber pointed out that few
    initiator use ACA
    	today). There was some grumbling because ACA is needed for reliable
    pipelining
    	of ordered commands in the face of errors.
    
    - There was a question on whether asynchronous event notification (AEN) was
    mandatory
    	to implement in iSCSI. Again, iSCSI transports must support
    asynchronous events
    	but iSCSI devices need not. Somebody pointed out that SCSI mode
    pages can be used
    	to regulate whether a device generate AENs.
    
    - Ralph Weber of T10 praised iSCSI for trying to advance the state of the
    art in SCSI.
    
    -- iSCSI requirements --- presented by Marjorie Krueger 
    
    Doug Otis asked whether the T10 work on authorization was going to be
    integrated
    into iSCSI. David Black  said that the documents won't be integrated into a
    single
    text. SCSI provides authorization, try to leave to T10.  Randy Haagens
    pointed out
    that SCSI/T10 is not quite there on privacy, authorization and
    authentication so we
    have to do our own mechanisms. Also, since iSCSI introduces the
    authentication
    problem (by running SCSI over IP networks), iSCSI is the appropriate place
    to fix
    it.  T10 work will be referenced where applicable.
    
    It was noted that the point of iSCSI authentication and authorization was to
    control
    who was able to get to a target.
    
    -- Bootstrapping  -- presented by Prasenjit Sarkar
    
    This document contains guidelines for how iSCSI boot clients connect to
    iSCSI boot
    server.  Included description of how to use existing techniques.  iSCSI boot
    clients
    need IP address, iSCSI boot server service delivery port name, default; LUN
    = 0;
    iSCSI initiator software.
    
    Boot process steps:
    			Client software stage
    				Use PXE or related bootp/tftp protocol to
    get iSCSI
    					initiator software
    			DHCP stage
    				Use DHCP to configure client IP address
    				Use new DHCP option to configure iSCSI boot
    server
    					service delivery port name
    			Discovery server stage
    				Use "to be defined" iSCSI delivery service
    to get iSCSI 
    
    There was a question on whether the boot client had to have IPsec, in light
    of the
    integrity proposal by Julian and security proposals by others. Prasenjit
    answered
    that it was not required; you just need bootp.
    
    Mark Carlson noted that he didn't see any requirements for security in the
    boot
    process. He pointed out that booting from disk is a security-critical
    operation
    in many environments. Prasenjit countered that the boot stuff doesn't
    disallow security.
    
    There was some question on what to do with the iSCSI session once a
    bootstrap program
    was done with it. It  was noted that it was probably simplest to close it
    and have
    the loaded program establish a new iSCSI session.
    
    -- MIB presentation - Mark Bakke
    
    A group forming to work on iSCSI MIB.  An initial stab, via SNMP, taken.
    Manage iSCSI portion - iSCSI only, not SCSI 'stuff'.  If needed, separate
    SCSI MIB,
    if does not already exist, needs to be addressed separately.
    
    Original MIB structure not adequate, being redone.  Also reflects older
    version of
    iSCSI draft.
    	
    Kevin (Nishan) - Has the MIB group looked into zoned environment support,
    similar to FC?  
    Mark indicated that he had not looked at this.  Where does zoning fit into
    iSCSI architecture, if at all?
    
    Where is MIB running?  Could be anything running iSCSI including initiator,
    target,
    gateway.
    
    FC HBA API available from SNIA, might be of interest to this group.  It has
    a
    complete list of things management  tools want to be able to see out of an
    initiator.
    
    
    ----- Tuesday, December 12, 2000
    
    -- Naming and Discovery Requirements - Mark Bakke, Cisco
    
    Mark said that the naming and discovery would specify target discovery but
    it
    would leave LUN discovery to SCSI mechanisms, such as REPORT LUNs. There was
    a bit
    of debate on this; why not go all the way and support LUN discovery in the
    naming
    system?  Some people countered with a layering argument: "Leave unto SCSI
    what
    is SCSI's".  
    
    Scaling requirements include both small and large environments.
    Find targets by querying SNS.  Small environments do not require SNS.
    Hierarchical format, with Naming Authority.
    
    World Wide Unique Identifier
    Address composed of IP addr+TCP port+Target Name, URL like.
    Plan to apply for well known port for TCP.  In such a case, an address w/o
    TCP specified would default to this well known port.
    
    Format includes info on naming authority, including support for 'local'
    naming
    authority.
    
    Character set to be allowed?  Unicode?
    Recommend UI schemes for naming authority.
    Need to look at security issues.
    
    T10 issues - reservations, reset, LUN naming
    Target reset discussion.  Noted that T10 is thinking of making target reset
    optional.
    
    Is breaking of a connection in iSCSI equivalent to a target reset?
    Consensus is
    no: the end of a session was equivalent to a target reset and would also
    cause any persistent reservations to be released.
    
    Naming scheme will allow multiple port and multiple initiator/target
    discovery.
    Will give list of targets + all paths to that target.
    
    Draft currently an individual submission - concensus (hum) taken, to be
    adopted
    as working group document.  No opposition hums.
    
    -- iSNS document presented by Josh Tseng, Nishan
    
    ISNS describes a scalable information facility for registration, discovery
    and
    manament of networked facilities.
    
    ISNS follows a client/server architecture.  If client registers with name
    server,
    allows itself to be managed by the name server.
    
    Why needed? Simplifies storage management implementations.  Allows greater
    scalability
    over broadcast/multicase discovery methods.  Supports zoning.
    
    Next step - incorporate requirements/suggestions from IPS working group.
    Extend document for FCIP
    
    Access control - what is name server role?  Targets upload public key to
    name server.
    Enforced at the end node/target.  Supports both soft and hard zoning.
    
    How does it fit into discovery.  Naming and discovery team will look at this
    to see
    how well it fits.  Should this be maintained as a separate document vs
    incorporated
    into naming/discovery team.
    
    In reading the draft, reliance on WWN.  What do you do about devices which
    do not have
    WWN/don't want WWNs.  Work done prior to n&d requirements document.  This
    draft would
    need to be redone to support WWUI of n&d requirements.
    
    Direction is one in which naming and discovery team approves of? Yes, close.
    
    Is there working group concensus as a base document; working w/ NDT group to
    produce
    a revised document, aligned with N&D, which would then be adopted as an
    official wg
    document.  Rough concencus - next revised version of document will become an
    official working group document.  Not unanimous.
    
    -- FCIP - Status and progress of FCIP. - Raj Bhagwat
    
    Current status - difference from previous presentation 
    Solution for bridging remote FC SAN islands. From FC point of view, appears
    tobe entirely
    an FC network.  Initially did not have congestion management (last
    presentation).
    Draft overhauled to incorporate TCP as transport in order to address
    congestion
    management and recovery mechanisms.  In rev -00, PSH flag incorporated.
    Based on
    feedback from mailing list, this was eliminated and in -01, a new frame
    boundary
    mechanism introduced.  Topics under discussion -- QOS, security, MTU/MSS,
    Framing/synchronization, order of delivery, discovery, error recovery.
    
    Alignment with new project in T11 - FC-BB2.  FC-BB2 focused on issues
    outside the scope
    of the IETF, including link level issues.  Target date for completion - June
    2001.
    
    David Robinson complained that much FC/IP work is done on conference calls.
    He asked
    that these conference calls be made public so as to allow broader
    participation.  Conference calls are design team calls open to design team
    members and authors.
    Public review on mailing lists.
    
    What is an FCIP device - a gateway between an FC SAN and IP network.
    Discovery of
    FCIP gateway (device) of other FCIP gateways.  How do gateways discover each
    other?
    Currently in spec is static configuration.  Dynamic configuration support is
    envisioned, perhaps using iSNS.
    
    David to work with authors offline on QoS text.
    
    -- iFCP - presented by Charles Monia, Nishan
    
    What is the difference between iFCP and FCIP?
    
    FCIP is a tunneling model between FC SANs.  A conduit for FC frames to flow
    transparently to FC network over IP backbone.
    
    IFCP network model extends up to the FC storage device itself.  Uses a
    session model.
    Consolidates FC storage switching and routing functions in the IP fabric.
    Reduce
    total cost of ownership, unify network and storage management domains and
    exploit IP
    technology investment.  Extend SAN over lan/man/wan distances.
    
    Next step -- complete the n_port session model.  Encapsulation changes for
    additional
    end-to-end error detection.
    
    The authors of iFCP would like to see it considered for adoption as a work
    group item.
    Adoption of iFCP as a work group item requires modification to the WG
    charter.  David
    requested input on this be set to the WG chairs.  Revising of the charter
    requires
    consultation of the area directors and working group chairs.
    
    After the presentation, Julian Satran suggested that iFCP and FC/IP should
    merge since
    they are so similar. Others agreed with Julian. Charles Monia countered that
    they would
    be difficult to merge because they take different approaches.  iFCP works by
    intercepting FC logins (connection requests) and modifying FC frames. In
    addition, it
    doesn't run FC routing protocols between FC SANs.
    
    Clarification of FCIP and iFCP - the latter is for FCP protocol mapping
    only, whereas
    FCIP can transport any FC upper level protocol.
    
    FC/IP works at a lower level than iFCP. It doesn't modify FC frames.
    
    FC/IP requires running FC routing/switching protocols between FC domains.
    
    Some thought that iFCP was a superset of FC/IP.
    
    Somebody was concerned that the iFCP gateway would need to run IP routing
    protocols.
    It was eventually decided the iFCP gateway was just an IP host and didn't
    have to run
    IP routing protocols.
    
    	Other comments need to sent to mailing list or chairs directly.
    
    -- Adaptation Layer presentation -- Randall Stewart, Cisco
    
    Randall Stewart's presentation introduced how the IPS protocols could be
    architected
    an adaptation layer independent of the underlying transport (i.e. at least
    both SCTP
    and TCP).
    
    To do this, a uniform API boundary between the ULP and transport would need
    to be
    defined.  This would require many changes to all existing drafts.  APIs
    would need
    to be a message oriented type of mechanism.  Critical path would need to be
    done so
    that they would be protocol agnostic.
    
    Transport interface would need to provide methods for passing buffers
    to/from control
    of transport, e.g. for zero copy.
    
    	Adaption layer would need to worry about 
    		Framing
    		Zero copy
    		Parallel paths
    		Message retrieval
    		Notifications
    	
    Must be very careful that this API would not make assumptions about the
    transport
    being used.  In adaptation model, would need to figure out how to overcome
    the issues.
    
    Julian Satran though this was a good way to proceed and would like to see
    Randall
    write up a section on this for the draft.  Randall would be more than glad
    to help
    by contributing both advice and/or drafts.
    
    Randy Haagens thought that the adaptation layer would add too many layers
    between
    iSCSI and TCP and that separate protocol should be done for SCTP.
    
    Steph Bailey suggested that the CAM may be an inspiration for the adaptation
    layer.
    Others responded that the CAM is at the wrong layer, above iSCSI.
    
    


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