RE: Addition of CmdSN in Data-out PDU

["Eddy Quicksall" <Eddy_Quicksall@ivivity.com>]

Matthew,

The statement would also imply the following would be legal, do you agree?

Cx = SCSI Command w/ITT=x, Dxyz = unsolicited data w/ITT=x and DataSN=y and
Final=z

C1 C2 D11 D21 D22 D12F D23F

i.e., the only rule is that the data for an ITT can't come before the
command for the same ITT.

Eddy

-----Original Message-----
From: BURBRIDGE,MATTHEW (HP-UnitedKingdom,ex2)
[mailto:matthew_burbridge@hp.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 10:53 AM
To: 'Binford, Charles'; ips@ece.cmu.edu
Subject: RE: Addition of CmdSN in Data-out PDU


Charles,

As you have described the spec states that "that unsolicited data MUST
be
sent in the same order as the commands".  This is not the same as
unsolicited data must follow the command associated with it:  For
example:

(Cx = SCSI Command PDU, Dx = The unsolicited data PDUs. The x in all the
example can be the ITT. It is not the CmdSN.

This is allowed:

  C1 C2 C3 D1 D2 C4 D3 D4

and the target will have to use the ITT to associate the data with the
command.

Matthew


-----Original Message-----
From: Binford, Charles [mailto:CBinford@pirus.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:50 PM
To: ips@ece.cmu.edu
Subject: RE: Addition of CmdSN in Data-out PDU


I have not verify version 8 is still the same, but version 07-97 had a
rule
that unsolicited data MUST be sent in the same order as the commands.

Thus, there is no need for a search on the ITT.  The target just needs
to
keep of linked list of I/Os waiting on unsolicited data.  New commands
are
added to the tail, any unsolicited data *should* be associated with the
I/O
at the head of the list.  The ITT is used as a sanity check and you're
done.

What am I missing?

Charles Binford
Pirus Networks
316.315.0382 x222


-----Original Message-----
From: BURBRIDGE,MATTHEW (HP-UnitedKingdom,ex2)
[mailto:matthew_burbridge@hp.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:21 AM
To: 'Paul Koning'
Cc: ips@ece.cmu.edu
Subject: RE: Addition of CmdSN in Data-out PDU


Since I started this thread I feel I must at least contribute!

The reason why I proposed putting CmdSN (actually it should be RefCmdSN)
in
the Data-out PDUs was to enable the target to have a faster search to
associate unsolicited data out PDUs with its SCSI Command PDU.
Solicited
Data-out PDUs do not require this as they have a Target Task Tag.

If all Command PDUs were queued then I believe this would work just
fine.
However, as Santosh correctly pointed out they are not and without
repeating
what he said this mechanism would not work for immediate command PDUs.

I am sure that particular implementations could make this work but the
underlying argument is that it needs to work and be useful to all
implementations.  The only benefit I now see of having CmdSN in the data
PDU
is as a check as implementations must (and can only) use the initiator
task
tag to associated the Data-out PDU with the command PDU.  Therefore, IMO
it
is not a good enough reason for having CmdSN in the Data-out PDUs simply
for
a consistency check.

The benefit of having the data sent unsolicited to minimise if not
eradicate
round trip times far out weighs the overhead in having to perform a
search
on receipt of unsolicited data. If we could have developed a well
defined
mechanism to overcome this overhead then all well and good and that is
what
I attempted.  Still, if someone can do this and the solution is simple
and
straight forward then I am sure that it will have my backing but until
then
...

Cheers

Matthew Burbridge
Senior Development Engineer
NIS-Bristol
Hewlett Packard
Telnet: 312 7010
E-mail: matthewb@bri.hp.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning [mailto:pkoning@jlc.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 5:07 PM
To: Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com
Cc: ips@ece.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Addition of CmdSN in Data-out PDU


Excerpt of message (sent 10 October 2001) by Julian Satran:
> Inconsistency can be legitimate. CmdSN is ephemeral. It can be reused,
it
> may have large holes and using it in an implementation is as bad as a
> hashed index.

Not true.

CmdSN values are sequential, by definition.  Yes, clearly there will
be small holes because commands complete out of order.  But "large"
holes are unlikely.

In any case, the target has control over that.  I can use an array
whose size is given by the number of pending commands times a
correction factor to account for the likely density of holes.  Then
MaxCmdSN would be updated based on two considerations: the ability to
handle more pending commands, and the need to keep the distance
between oldest (lowest) still active CmdSN and MaxCmdSN bounded by the
size of the lookup array.

So having CmdSN in the DataOut PDU allows this approach, thereby
replacing a hash lookup on a rapidly changing ID space by a simple
array indexing operation.  Without CmdSN, you're forced to use a
mechanism that has a lot more overhead (in the insert/remove or in the
lookup, depending on the mechanism chosen).

	paul