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[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] RE: iSCSI over TLSBill, The one "tiny" item you forgot to mention is that TLS records span TCP and iSCSI PDU boundaries. TLS records can't be decrypted in face of TCP packet loss and markers/alignment can't be recovered (to be more precise require a lot more tweaking of the stacks). Julo "Bill Strahm" <bill@Sanera.net> 08-11-01 23:55 Please respond to "Bill Strahm" To: Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL cc: Subject: RE: iSCSI over TLS Julian, I do not understand how TLS interferes with delivery of iSCSI packets any more than IPsec. In either case your TOE MUST decrypt the packet and deal with the results. I do not see how this changes the problem if the packet is decrypted before going to the TOE (again the hardware to do this MUST be on the NIC device) or after going through the TOE processing... Quick summary of what I think needs to happen IPsec 1) receive L2 packet 2) determine it is IP 3) Apply packet policy based on L3 header 4) Decrypt packet - verify it is covered by the SA 5) Pass to L4 (TCP) for processing 6) Verify Framing/etc. 7) Done TLS 1) Recieve L2 Packet 2) Pass to L3 3) Pass to L4 (TCP) for processing 4) Decrypt packet 5) Verify Framing/etc 6) Done It turns out the policies for TLS are much simpler than for IPsec, the application itself gets to determine if security should be turned on or not (rather than another application pushing policies into an SPD) and I don't see a difference in the security offload requirements. In many cases TLS will go through firewalls/NAT/NATP much better than IPsec, allowing for a wider deployment model. Bill Strahm +========+=========+=========+=========+=========+=========+=========+ Bill Strahm Software Development is a race between Programmers Member of the trying to build bigger and better idiot proof software Technical Staff and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better bill@sanera.net idiots. (503) 601-0263 So far the Universe is winning --- Rich Cook -----Original Message----- From: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu [mailto:owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu]On Behalf Of Julian Satran Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:17 PM To: ips@ece.cmu.edu Subject: Re: iSCSI over TLS Peter, A group of us seriously considered TLS. The main reason for dropping it was that it would interfere with any mechanism we could think of doing framing and steering and we thought that framing and steering are essential at 10Gbps and over. Julo "Peter Mellquist" <peterm@seven-systems.com> Sent by: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu 07-11-01 02:15 Please respond to "Peter Mellquist" To: <ips@ece.cmu.edu> cc: Subject: iSCSI over TLS I am aware that the ips group is leaning toward IPSEC as for the security solution but I am interested if anyone is also considering using Transport Layer Security (TLS)? I am concerned that the requirement for IPSEC might make TOEs more complex than they need to be. Can TLS be optionally used as well as defined by the specification? This could allow TOE vendors to only be concerned with providing normal IPv4 / ipv6 and leave the security to a higher layer. A TLS stack sitting above the TOE could then handle security very well. Also, I anticipate that the first generation of TOEs will not support IPSEC. With a iSCSI/TLS we could enable security solutions with the first generation of TOEs and get speed and security. Are any TOE vendors planning to support IPSEC? Can TLS or IPSEC be supported? -peter Peter Mellquist Seven Systems Technologies 575 Menlo Drive Suite 2 Rocklin CA 916-577-1275 peterm@seven-systems.com
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