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    RE: sector alignment for DataOut PDUs?



    >>>>> "Robert" == Robert Snively <rsnively@brocade.com> writes:
    
     >> > There has always been a feeling that it was nice to do things >
     >> on convenient boundaries, including memory page boundaries and >
     >> device physical block boundaries, but SCSI has long since >
     >> elected to perform any operation on almost any boundary.  SCSI
     >> drives > and related operating systems have commonly used block
     >> sizes of 512 > bytes and 520 bytes and less commonly of other
     >> values.  > > The only requirement we were able to enforce in
     >> previous > SCSI protocols is that all but the last PDU of a
     >> transfer > were required to be on 4 byte boundaries.  We were also
     >> > able to enforce the maximum values and a requirement that > the
     >> transferred data count exactly match the requested byte > count.
     >> 
     >> I don't see that last point.  Certainly not for unsolicited data
     >> -- and for R2T I can find no stated requirement to send exactly
     >> the requested count either.  Or did you mean the total for the
     >> entire operation as opposed to the individual bursts?
     >> 
    
     Robert> I haven't reviewed all of iSCSI's rules with respect to this
     Robert> particular issue.  There appears to be an assumption of
     Robert> non-congested processor-sized buffers that allow unsolicited
     Robert> write data transfer.  That may be a convenient assumption for
     Robert> some devices, but a problem for those that want more control
     Robert> of their buffering.  In general, the requests for write data
     Robert> are part of the logical unit's write buffer management and
     Robert> data striping management.  If you don't supply exactly what
     Robert> is asked for, you foul up the buffer management of the
     Robert> target, sometimes causing pathological performance problems.
    
    I agree that this is a concern.  But the iSCSI spec allows initiators
    to do what you don't want them to do.
    
     >> ...
     >> Given alignment, each iSCSI PDU that carries data can be sent to
     >> disk by itself, because it corresponds exactly to one or more disk
     >> blocks.  Without alignment, doing writes when the data arrives is
     >> still possible, but it clearly adds complexity because PDU
     >> boundaries don't match disk block boundaries.
     >> 
     >> I made the proposal because it clearly helps the target and
     >> appears to add no significant burden on the initiator.  The
     >> feedback to date indicates that this is indeed the case.
     >> 
     >> Are you saying "I don't care one way or the other" or are you
     >> saying "I feel this is a bad idea because it creates problems you
     >> haven't thought of"?  I'm reading your comment as the former; if
     >> you meant the latter, could you elaborate?
    
     Robert> I think I am saying that I care, and that it is an idea that
     Robert> will trap you into limiting simplifications.  In general, the
     Robert> initiator's data flow engine has no knowledge of the logical
     Robert> unit's physical block structure.  In addition, the page
     Robert> structure from which you are obtaining data in the host will
     Robert> usually have boundaries that are unrelated to the logical
     Robert> unit's physical block structure.  While it is perfectly
     Robert> possible to align PDU's with blocks, it requires SCSI ULP
     Robert> information to be forced in to the lower level data transfer
     Robert> hardware.  This is a significant inconvenience and will cost
     Robert> performance and/or complexity.  Note that the blocks in a
     Robert> logical unit are not all required to be the same size, and in
     Robert> tape drives and some optical devices are typically not the
     Robert> same size.
    
     Robert> I still think it is best for the logical unit to ask for what
     Robert> it wants, then expect to get it.  The logical unit is the
     Robert> only device in the system that really knows what it needs and
     Robert> when it needs it.  That is one of the important SCSI
     Robert> principles, allowing the logical unit to take over all the
     Robert> media dependent functions from the initiator and the host
     Robert> programming.
    
    I think we are in agreement.
    
    As for the point about the initiator data flow engine having no
    knowledge of the target LU block structure, that is true.  However, if
    you want to require the initiator to send exactly the amount that the
    target is asking for (for example, by changing the description of R2T
    to say that the amount of data sent by the initiator "MUST be exactly
    equal to the Desired Data Transfer Length specified in the R2T" rather
    than "MUST not exceed the Desired Data Transfer Length specified in
    the R2T" as in the current text), that too imposes a constraint on the
    initiator's data flow engine by the target. 
    
    That constraint isn't quite identical to the one needed to support the
    data PDU alignment, but it's pretty similar.  Either way, the
    initiator lost some of its freedom to send exactly what it wants to
    send.
    
    Also, the arguments for doing it are the same in both cases: giving
    the target some control over how the initiator breaks up the outgoing
    data, so the target can arrange its buffering and memory management
    efficiently.
    
    You're right that this proposal isn't particularly applicable to
    tapes.  I don't want to claim that every target will want to use the
    proposed alignment capability -- only that there are enough targets
    that will get a significant benefit from it to make the feature worth
    having. 
    
    	paul
    
    


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Last updated: Mon Mar 04 15:18:10 2002
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