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[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] Re: Additional FC MIBs proposedHi Roger, Thanks for correcting the errors in my message. I'm glad that the Letter Ballot comment was effective. I tried to check the status before sending my message but was unable to access the PDF file at: ftp://ftp.t11.org/t11/member/fc/fa/02-134v4.pdf and that's why I worded my message with caveats like "the last time I looked", and "T11 seem to have", etc. I was especially pleased to read your last sentence (about not repeating past mistakes). Thanks, Keith. > Keith, > > T11 has certainly traditionally not had a great amount of MIB expertise, > although with the formation of T11.5 containing some organizations with > expertise in this area, and the participation of some of us in efforts like > the SCSI MIB along with some notable experts that's changing, albeit slowly. > :-)) However that is OK because T11 has also never generated a MIB for Fibre > Channel, as far as I'm aware. The draft-ietf-ipfc-fcmgmt-int-mib was neither > submitted to the IETF by T11 (it was created in an independent industry > group called the Fibre Alliance), nor was it developed in T11. > > I'm frankly not sure what your reference to "publishing > draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib > as if it were the definitive standard for a Fibre Channel MIB" relates to. > If this relates to the MIB-FA Technical Report that was recently published > as INCITS TR-33:2003 then: > > a) This is a Technical Report, NOT a standard, definitive or otherwise. > > b) The TR contains three different revisions of the MIB, because all three > are used and different. > > c) The Scope section of this document states: > > The MIBs specified in this technical report are widely implemented even > though they do not meet IETF requirements. To address this issue a revised > Fibre Channel Management MIB has been developed in the IETF. For new > implementations, vendors should implement the revised IETF Fibre Channel > Management MIB. > > This wording was introduced in response to a comment submitted against the > T11 Letter Ballot by Cisco. I'm both the T11.5 Chair and the T11 webmaster, > and I'm certainly not aware of any requests for wording in relation to this > subject that weren't honored. > > The T11 web site does not list any reference to draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib as > a published standard. Quite to the contrary, the front page for Task Group > T11.5 (http://www.t11.org/t11/stat.nsf/tg5) links to a page containing SNMP > information on which the only MIBs referenced are the IETF Entity MIB, and > the FC Management MIB I-D via the link on the IETF IP Storage WG page. > > Keith, I completely agree that the current situation regarding the FA MIB is > NOT good, and I'd like to see the new MIB adopted with all possible speed. > Part of the reason that I agreed to come back into T11 and get involved in > T11.5 was a realization that the many of the FC companies had not been > closely integrated enough with the development of management interfaces and > information definitions. That having been said, I'm under pressure from some > quarters to focus T11.5's attention on newer and supposedly "more > extensible" management schemes. I think that would be narrow-minded in the > extreme, but discussions like this aren't exactly helping my cause! > > I've already indicated to the IPS WG Co-Chairs that I'm neutral as to where > further MIB work for FC gets done, and I'll personally participate wherever > this happens. If the decision is that there is insufficient support in the > IETF I'll solicit support for one or more new projects getting created in > T11.5 to do this work, and I'll issue a call for people with expertise to > participate as always. I still have the slides from your "Tips on MIB > design" presentation that you gave to the IP Working Group on August 27, > 2001 and I'd certainly solicit your making the same type of presentation in > T11.5 and your active participation in the work there if at all possible. > Regardless of where the work gets done, I think you'll find a number of > people with very firm desires NOT to repeat what happened with the earlier > Fibre Channel MIBs. > > Regards, > > > Roger Cummings > > roger.cummings@veritas.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith McCloghrie [mailto:kzm@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:15 PM > To: pat_thaler@agilent.com > Cc: Black_David@emc.com; ips@ece.cmu.edu > Subject: Re: Additional FC MIBs proposed > > > The issue with doing the MIBs in T11 is that T11 has, in the past, not > had the appropriate amount of MIB expertise. My understanding is that > T11 themselves acknowledged this by the submission of the "Fibre > Alliance MIB" as draft-ietf-ipfc-fcmgmt-int-mib. However, as and when > the IPFC WG had completed all other items in its charter, it had been > unable to reach consensus on that MIB. So, to allow the IPFC WG to > conclude, the unfinished work item was moved to the IP Storage WG. > After abortive attempts to get changes in draft-ietf-ipfc-fcmgmt-int-mib, > I created draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib as a MIB which: a) meets IETF's > standards, b) replaces both draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib and the overlapping > RFC 2837, and c) details the problems with those previous MIBs. > > Meanwhile, T11 has published on its website a copy of one version (I'm > not sure if it's the latest version) of draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib. > Since that MIB is widely implemented in the industry, I agreed that > such publication would be appropriate *if* T11's publication indicated > that the MIB is already being deprecated by the IETF's definition of > draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib. The last time I looked, T11 had failed to > do that; rather, T11 seem to have published draft-ietf-ips-fcmgmt-mib > as if it were the definitive standard for a Fibre Channel MIB. > (However, the MIB was still in its Internet-Draft format, and perhaps > T11 intended that as an indication that the MIB was just a draft, as > ephemeral as all Internet-Drafts are, by definition). These recent > actions of T11 suggest to me that they still do not have the > appropriate amount of MIB expertise. > > The bottom line is that a bad MIB was widely implemented in the industry, > and I believe that network management of Fibre Channel devices suffered > because of that. A better MIB for Fibre Channel has been defined in the > IP Storage WG, who have already discussed the definition of further FC MIBs > (see http://www.pdl.cmu.edu/mailinglists/ips/mail/msg09473.html), but > deferred them as future work. > > Keith. > > > > It doesn't appear that any of these MIBs are in scope for us. They > > don't deal with IP storage. They are all very specific to Fibre Channel > > and deal mostly with fabric issues. T11 would be more appropriate. > > > > Pat > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Black_David@emc.com [mailto:Black_David@emc.com] > > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:55 AM > > To: ips@ece.cmu.edu > > Subject: Additional FC MIBs proposed > > > > > > Everyone, > > > > This Internet-Draft describes a number of MIBs that the authors > > would like the IPS WG to take up. The WG chairs are seeking > > input on the level interest in standardization and use of these > > MIBs, the appropriateness of working on them here (vs. T11) and > > prioritization (which ones to take up first, as all 9 in parallel > > is not likely). > > > > Send comments/opinions/etc. to the list or directly to Elizabeth > > (ElizabethRodriguez@ieee.org) and myself (black_david@emc.com). > > > > Thanks, > > --David > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > David L. Black, Senior Technologist > > EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA 01748 > > +1 (508) 293-7953 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 > > black_david@emc.com Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 2:28 PM > > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-gai-fc-mibs-00.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > > > > > Title : MIBs Standardization for Fibre Channel > > Author(s) : S. Gai et al. > > Filename : draft-gai-fc-mibs-00.txt > > Pages : 9 > > Date : 2003-6-20 > > > > Fibre Channel (FC) is a high speed serial interface technology that > > supports several Upper Layer Protocols including Small Computer > > System Interface (SCSI) and IP. Fibre Channel is standardized by the > > INCITS T11 Technical Committee. Fibre Channel Standards include > > Framing and Signaling protocols [FC-FS], Generic Services protocols > > [FC-GS-3], Switch Fabric protocols [FC-SW-2], etc. > > The management of a Fibre Channel network requires to monitor and set > > many parameters related to these protocols and this may be > > accomplished defining a proper set of MIBs. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gai-fc-mibs-00.txt > > > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the > message. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username > > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type > > "cd internet-drafts" and then > > "get draft-gai-fc-mibs-00.txt". > > > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > > Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > > In the body type: > > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-gai-fc-mibs-00.txt". > > > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > > how to manipulate these messages. > > > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > Internet-Draft. > > >
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